Infertility and Self Doubt

Doug 0:00

Welcome everyone to the infertility feelings podcast, where today we are talking about infertility and self-doubt.

Jesse 0:08

Self-doubt? What else? Self-doubt.

Doug 0:11

It's a huge problem in life. Self-doubt. I don't know if I would say problem. It's something that happens. It's something that happens. Yes. Do you ever doubt yourself? Me? Yes.

Jesse 0:21

Yes.

Doug 0:23

Yes. What is something? What is something in the last month, Jesse, that you have had self-doubt about? Also, I noticed on your cup of coffee they spelt your name J-E-S-S-I-E. Yes. Which is not how she spells it.

Jesse 0:41

I spelled the boy away. J-E-S-S-E, baby. Not sure why. I was a tomboy for a lot of years, though. That's a podcast for another time. Anyway.

Doug 0:49

What's something that you have had self-doubt about?

Jesse 0:52

I started Pilates and I had self-doubt that I could make it through the first workout. I was like, I don't know if I can do this. I can't do it.

Doug 1:02

You were like, I can I don't know if I can be a Pilates person.

Jesse 1:05

Nope.

Doug 1:06

Did you make it through?

Jesse 1:07

I did. I made it through. I actually like it, but I have a lot of self-doubt in that class every time. There's not a class that I'm like, did it. Fierce. I always having self-doubt about myself of just like, can I do that? Is this the hunt, the thing? I oh my even that. Oh my gosh. And then this morning I accidentally booked the advanced class by accident.

Doug 1:32

Yeah.

Jesse 1:33

I'm not sure. I don't know if I'm going to be able to lift this up to my mouth.

Doug 1:39

Are you saying you're not, you've had self-doubt about if you're advanced Pilates?

Jesse 1:42

I am I'm going to tell you I have no self-doubt. I'm not for advanced Pilates. I'm going to tell you that. There is no doubt with that. No, I feel like I have a lot of self-doubt. I'm trying to think of an example of the last month.

Doug 1:53

Do you know where I always have a lot of self-doubt? What? Whenever uh purchasing pants, I always have a lot of self-doubt. Don't you feel like that's a very like whenever you have to go buy a pair of pants, don't you feel like that's a very self-doubt environment?

Jesse 2:10

I feel like it's a lot of self-shit.

Doug 2:13

For me, it's just like you try on a pair of pants and you're like, is this me? Like I don't know if these are me. You know? Like you start to doubt yourself. You start to doubt your look because you're like it just feels like it's a I don't know. Maybe that's just me.

Jesse 2:27

Right.

Doug 2:28

I bought a pair of pants that are more high-waisted recently. I can't wait for this. Yeah, and I'm really excited about them. But I tried the mom and I was like, I think this is me. I had self-doubt.

Jesse 2:37

You had self-doubt. It's so funny. Doug also will buy a new pair of pants and not wear it for like two weeks.

Doug 2:43

Yeah, you gotta let it, you gotta let them rest.

Jesse 2:45

I go home, immediately put on the new whatever it is, shirt, pant, whatever it is, immediately.

Doug 2:52

I like you're like that with Christmas. I like to get him and just hold them for a while, just to make sure that everything is like, you know, they're just there, they're safe. Maybe it's the self-doubt. Maybe it's the self-doubt.

Jesse 3:04

Maybe it's the self-doubt of like, am I ready for this? Do I have enough confidence for these pants?

Doug 3:09

For high-waisted pants.

Jesse 3:10

I was trying to think of an emotional.

Doug 3:12

How do you just commit to high-waisted pants? Like you just go for it one day. We're gonna find out. Some really excited. They're not that high-waisted. What if they were all now?

Jesse 3:23

You're gonna know what it's like to be a woman with high-waisted pants. Is it comfortable for you or uncomfortable?

Doug 3:28

I don't know. That we're gonna find out.

Jesse 3:30

We're gonna find out together.

Doug 3:31

This is exciting.

Jesse 3:32

Might need therapy afterwards, but we're gonna find out together. Anyway, I'm trying to think of an emotional self-doubt. I always think that I have a thought going on the back of my head of like, am I too much? Do I blow people out of the water? Did I say this right thing? Did I socially was that appropriate? Like, am I too much?

Doug 3:57

Yeah.

Jesse 3:58

I like to give a lot of detail. So sometimes in text messages, I can even think that. I can be like, did I give too much? Like, who cares what time this is or what day this was or what? Like, just ask the question.

Doug 4:09

That's a perfect example of self-doubt. Like doubting, you know, I don't know. Like, am I? I think self-doubt often begins with like a am I? Am I something? Am I too much?

Jesse 4:20

Right.

Doug 4:21

I know the pants is like a funny example, but like and the bodies is actually not that funny of people.

Jesse 4:26

I was having so much self-doubt. And I'd be able to walk again. But yes.

Doug 4:29

But it is, I think often starts with that I like am I too much? Am I uh like too big? Am I for people? Like is my personality is like blowing people up. I often have felt that too. Like I doubt myself in terms of uh how much uh how fast I talk and how much I share. And am I just giving too much information? Like, am I flooding someone with information? And is that just like so unenjoyable?

Jesse 4:55

What did our best friend say about both of us? We were talking and laughing and talking about our relationship dynamic. And I think she said, she's like, both of you are not chill.

Doug 5:04

Yeah, we're not, I wouldn't say we're chill.

Jesse 5:07

Correct. Neither is she, but it's like it's she she was just like, neither of you are like just chill.

Doug 5:14

In our process groups, we oftentimes welcome people and say, like, what's something that like if we really knew you that we would know about you? And I always say that I love that question. I always say that I seem for all intents of purposes kind of chill on the outside. I used to drive a VW van. Yeah, I surfed, I studied philosophy. I'm sort of, you know, I'm like art. I love art. I think you I think you could be tempted to think I'm like laid back, but I'm really I'm I'm not laid back. I'm not really laid back at all.

Jesse 5:43

You don't go vertical very often.

Doug 5:45

What is it?

Jesse 5:46

Vertical what's this? Uh horizontal horizontal very often.

Doug 5:51

I still don't know what that means. What would that mean?

Jesse 5:53

You said that you're not, what did you just say? You said you're not chill, you said you're not laid back. Laid back. You don't lay back. You're always vertical. You're not really horizontal. You're more of a vertical guy. So am I. That's why I think we're born for podcasting. I do.

Doug 6:12

Anyway. That's what we're talking about today, though, is that emotional reality that sometimes we have a lot of self-doubt. And sometimes that self-doubt comes into play during infertility. Yeah. I know that for me. Sometimes. Yeah, it definitely does.

Jesse 6:28

Infertility likes to light self-doubt on fire. It's like, oh, this little insecurity you maybe had and never really popped up, but kind of popped up in your life. Let me give you this gift of infertility, and then we'll light it on fire and have it be like a thing that you think about all the time. Infertility loves to do that. It's one of its favorite things.

Doug 6:44

I think infertility has a very much so infertility brings up all sorts of things. It's a developmental disruption. Yep. It's this huge thing that happens to us. In so many ways, it's a trauma. And that trauma, that massive disruption in our life brings up all sorts of other things that have happened to us in our past. It can bring up past trauma, it can bring up past thoughts we had about our life. If you remember, Dr. Janet Joffey said that we all have this reproductive story. Like when we were younger, like an 18-year-old version of ourself had a vision for how we would end up having kids. If you go through infertility, it brings up all that stuff, your reproductive story that you thought you were gonna have, the life you thought you were gonna have. And right in line with all of that, it brings up a whole bunch of self-actually, I'll call them self-limiting beliefs. Self-doubt, self-limiting beliefs.

Jesse 7:38

Let's pause on that.

Doug 7:39

Pause. Pause on that.

Jesse 7:40

Pause. Pause. Pause.

Doug 7:43

Flag on the play. Football started this week.

Jesse 7:46

Yes. I am aware of it.

Doug 7:49

Does Jesse? Let's do a quick poll in the comments. Does Jesse care about football?

Jesse 7:53

Hopefully, by what is happening on my shirt, you would know what sport I actually love and watch a lot. But football isn't. I mean, I like it.

Doug 8:02

Who doesn't like football? It's huge.

Jesse 8:04

I I like it. I like it.

Doug 8:06

We're not the biggest football family.

Jesse 8:07

I wouldn't say that we're the biggest football family, which is probably why.

Doug 8:12

Go uh go Rams. We live in LA.

Jesse 8:15

We live in LA, so we gotta actually for the Rams, but I just I like it.

Doug 8:20

Or there's the Chargers. This doesn't matter.

Jesse 8:22

This doesn't matter. Um what? What were we saying? Okay. Okay, yeah. I I like the word, like I feel like it's like self-doubt. What does that mean? And I feel like maybe more of like the fancy word or more of the psychology word, would you say, would be a self-limiting belief. Something that holds you from living your best self.

Doug 8:47

Yeah.

Jesse 8:48

Or the fullness of yourself, the best self.

Doug 8:52

I'm not trying to be like live your best life now.

Jesse 8:56

No, I'm I'm not trying to be like um, like what kind of what we talked about on the last podcast. Like, I'm not trying to be like perfect, like so we can achieve perfection. Your best self, like holding you back. Like maybe a little thing, a little like self-doubt would be like you could never talk in front of a crowd. And it's like that is just let into you, let into you, into you, into into you. It's like, but maybe you want to and you wanna do that. And it's like a self-leaning belief is like, I don't have anything to offer. I can't offer anything to a group of people or whatever. It's like that's a that's something that's holding you back from living your best self. So I don't mean like what word did you say in the perfection episode?

Doug 9:32

Uh I don't know.

Jesse 9:33

We live in like a very like optimized, optimized culture. It's like I don't mean that from an optimized perspective. I mean like am I getting ahead of myself? I don't know. I think I think I think I mean that from like a just living your best self, being your best friend to someone, being your best partner, being your best person, but not like from this like optimized way of like achieve or something. It's just so what what kind of holds you back in life? What and I think a self-limiting belief can really dig itself in there. Like if I think like I'm too much, yeah, that can really take over. It can stunt me socially, it can stunt me in life, it can make me more isolate. Um what would you say the difference is of a self-limiting belief and just a fear?

Doug 10:22

I think a fear is a reaction to something that's happening.

Jesse 10:26

Like, let's take an example of infertility, not to cut you off completely as I'm not.

Doug 10:30

Yeah, no, that's okay.

Jesse 10:31

Let's take let's take this example of infertility. Afraid of not beingcome a mom.

Doug 10:35

Yeah.

Jesse 10:36

It's a fear. Everyone, I would assume if you've been in the infertility world for a little bit, would have that natural fear. What would it be if to just like everyone has that fear? Yeah. Will I ever be a mom or a parent? Let's say what is the difference of that and like a self-limiting belief when it's like, oh, now I'm like, what would you say that difference is?

Doug 10:56

I so I would say a self-limiting belief is something that we a belief that we form about the about reality based on something that's not true or something that is holding us back. I think generally there are things that aren't true. So the fear would be responding to something that's happening in our life. Like, we're struggling to get pregnant. What if I never become a mom? Like that's so terrifying. The self-limiting belief would be maybe something that's built into you longer, which would be a belief that might not be true about reality, which would be I don't have a purpose in life if I can't be a mom. Like that's more of a belief that's formed over a long period of time. That as a woman, if I can't get pregnant, I have no purpose, I have no meaning in life. Like no value, no purpose. Like, what would I even do? I don't have to become a mom. And if I don't, then I'm worthless. That's this belief that was formed. That's just not true, but it was born and it's part of like the fabric of the way that you view the world. That the fear then is bringing up and playing on that self-limiting belief. Does that make sense? Yeah. The fear is like a response that you have to this current situation. We're struggling to get pregnant, and it's pulling on all of this self-limiting belief that I have. Can we talk about self-limiting beliefs, like where they come from for a second?

Jesse 12:20

Yes. I was trying to think of another example. Like, what if you're in the forest and a bear is there?

Doug 12:25

Yes.

Jesse 12:26

And you're like, I am afraid.

Doug 12:27

That happens to me often. Yes.

Jesse 12:29

Just chilling. Just walking by and a bear is there. You're afraid of the bear. Would that situation develop a self-limiting belief?

Doug 12:37

I don't think so. I mean, that might limit, that might create like a natural fear response.

Jesse 12:42

I guess I'm just trying to be like, if you were afraid in an infertility journey or you have a fear, that doesn't mean it's self-limiting belief.

Doug 12:48

No, I think fear often.

Jesse 12:50

I'm trying to give like another like obscure example or something.

Doug 12:53

I think fear is a natural response or anxiety or stress is so natural to feel during infertility. Right. The problem in why we're doing this episode is those things like fear, stress, anxiety, feeling overwhelmed, feeling I don't know, shame, like like uh stigma, like all those things come up. And I think the reason why we wanted to do this episode is those things sometimes get supercharged by your self-doubt. Or probably the way we'd say it going forward, those things get supercharged by your self-limiting beliefs. Does that make sense? Yes. So yes, it's natural to be terrified that you won't get pregnant. I remember feeling like uh, you know, when we first went in, when I first went in and they were like, you have no, not to just like go straight into our story, but if someone when we went in, they were like, You have no sperm. That was like the first thing that they said to me. Turned out to be not true. Some type of horrible, um, like man-made, what am I trying to say? The test was faulty. Yeah, but it was like a like a human error. That's what I was trying to say. It was like some type of human error, and then the test came back, and they were like, it's you do actually have sperm, but it was actually not good. It was still not good. I know, I know.

Jesse 14:07

That was so horrible. You went from zero to you actually do, but it's not good.

Doug 14:11

You're like, what? But I remember the absolute dread and fear I had of like, oh my gosh, I've been just like living my life this whole time, and I had no idea I like wasn't fertile or couldn't get pregnant. That was just so scary. And think like, what if I don't become a dad? And all that kind of was so terrifying, and it was natural to feel that fear and to feel that stress and anxiety. It was supercharged though by a lot of these self-limiting beliefs I had. Does that make sense?

Jesse 14:39

Yeah, yeah. I think a big self-limiting belief I had in infertility was am I good? Like, am I am I like you have to get pregnant?

Doug 14:54

You have to be able to like get get pregnant and become a mom to be good.

Jesse 14:57

Yes, yes, yes. Not that I thought that like I'm bad if I don't, but like I just I don't know, I think a self-limit belief of like is like I'm good. Like I I I think that I thought that I would be a really good mom. So a self-limited belief is like, so if I don't have that outlet, I'm not good. Does that make sense?

Doug 15:18

Yeah.

Jesse 15:19

I don't know. Yeah.

Doug 15:23

Can we talk about where self-limiting beliefs come from? Sure. Okay.

Jesse 15:28

Everyone self-limiting beliefs, self-doubt all under the same.

Doug 15:31

Yeah. I think self-doubt is a great way of saying self-limiting beliefs. I think oftentimes we doubt our what we're capable of, you know? Right. And I think at the root of that is all sorts of things. Like maybe we, you know, have certain beliefs and opinions about ourselves that like I I really want to just like make a decision and like feel good about it. But I always doubt myself. I'm like, I there's so much like self-doubt that I have in this. Right. And I think what's kind of maybe at the heart of that, or what's I feel like helpful in terms of trying to think through it is what are the beliefs that you have about yourself that are not true? Those self-limiting beliefs.

Jesse 16:07

Right.

Doug 16:07

So that's in our program though, we kind of go for that.

Jesse 16:09

Right.

Doug 16:10

In the groups that we do.

Jesse 16:11

So where do you feel like self-belimiting beliefs? Wow. I've just been wanting- let me try that again. Where do you feel like self-limiting beliefs come from?

Doug 16:19

There it is. I love the idea of self-limiting beliefs. I don't love self-limiting beliefs, but I love talking about it because I feel like figuring out where what our self-limiting beliefs are, what to do with them, is in a lot of ways at the center of what mental health is, you know? Going forward, really. Yeah, I really do.

Jesse 16:40

I feel like you think that self-limiting beliefs is the at the core of mental health. Yes.

Doug 16:44

Some of it. I think really not 100% of it. There's a lot of things that go into it, but understanding the ways that we formed beliefs about ourselves and about the world that are untrue. And then figuring out what on earth do you do with those things is, I think, a practice that all of us can have until the end of our life. You know? What are the things that I figured out that I that are untrue realities that I believe and how and what do I do with them? Is I think at at the core of what of a lot of mental health stuff is.

Jesse 17:13

Yeah, makes sense.

Doug 17:14

Self-womanning beliefs, though, where do they come from?

Jesse 17:16

It's like, like, uh, can we just name a few self-mitting beliefs? Yeah. I'm a failure.

Doug 17:20

Yeah.

Jesse 17:20

Um, I'm not worthy. I'll only be good enough if I can accomplish X, Y, Z. Uh, you work hard and that's the way that you get the world. I don't know. Yeah. That I really didn't finish that settings, but like you work hard and that's how you have value. Or um suffering belief is I'm ugly.

Doug 17:39

Yeah.

Jesse 17:40

Like I'm ugly, I don't, or like, I'm not a good friend, or you know what I mean? I'll never be as close. Like, I don't know, just stuff like that.

Doug 17:48

Yeah, let me give you an example of what I'm talking about and where they come from.

Jesse 17:51

Okay.

Doug 17:52

Say, we'll use your example of what you were saying of feeling sometimes like you're too much for people. Say you come home from school every day as a teenager, and as you get home, you have a lot to say about your day. A lot of things happened.

Jesse 18:06

Not that far from the truth.

Doug 18:08

Believe it or not, I love how you said that.

Jesse 18:10

I just have a lot of things to say of what happened to me that day. I still do.

Doug 18:14

Jesse comes home. I have a lot of things to say, and her mom works from home. And this isn't real, I'm making this up. But say your mom works from home and you get home and you're ready to tell her about your day. And halfway through you sort of just saying everything, she goes, Oh my gosh, can you just shut up? I have so much to do.

Jesse 18:34

That part is not true. That's not true.

Doug 18:36

But just pretend that that is true. Pretend that this happens to you. And you're like, uh, you are just so much. I have a lot to do. Can you just you're so much drama? Can you just go talk to someone else? Goes back to your work. Ow, that massively hurts, right? Say it happens over and over and over again. This person that you love, that you feel like you're my mom, like you care for me. I'm keep getting this message from you that I am too much, that you keep saying I'm drama and you don't want to hear about my day. You begin to form the belief, I think I'm too much for people. Like when I'm coming home and I'm just being my bubbly self, I'm blowing this person up and they don't want anything to do with me. I must be too much, you know? And then maybe you're at school and you're talking to Dr. K and you're in a friend of yours goes, Oh my gosh, you are so annoying. Can you just shut up for a second? Oh my gosh, maybe I'm maybe I am too but I feel like mine probably was more passive.

Jesse 19:29

I think it was more like at school, you talk a lot.

Doug 19:32

Yeah, yeah.

Jesse 19:33

I mean, it's like you um teachers would be like, Well, there's a full personality. It's it's it wasn't as like, I mean, probably sometimes it was blatant, but like it almost was like passive, almost. And but then what did that do? I'm a lot, I talk a lot, I'm too much.

Doug 19:48

Like it started to develop so that starts to develop a belief, a belief about what is true in life. You look at your life and you go, I think I'm too much for people, right? And and you start to form the belief, I'm too much.

Jesse 20:03

Right.

Doug 20:05

That belief starts to become self-limiting when you start to make decisions about your life and what you will do in life based on that untrue reality. Does that make sense?

Jesse 20:16

Yeah.

Doug 20:17

Like, for example, uh, I'm not gonna talk that much. I won't volunteer. I'm just gonna kind of shut up. And in my friend group, I will wait to let everyone else talk first. You start to dampen your own personality and hold back.

Jesse 20:29

Right.

Doug 20:31

Caveat, there is like an appropriate level of like learning how to you know, be in a class and learn how to be a friend and stuff like that.

Jesse 20:37

I think I got talks too much in class, like all the you know what I mean. Like I distracted like 800 people at the same time.

Doug 20:41

Yeah, there's there's a natural sense of like, well, I'm I'm learning social norms and stuff like that. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about you really start to just push your personality down. And when you get home, you don't talk to your parents, you just kind of go to your room, go on your phone, whatever. And you start to really shove who you are down to the point where you're like, this has now become limiting to my life because I'm not really, I'm not doing the things that I would love to do.

Jesse 21:05

I would get you you could give half of yourself. You go to a situation if a social situation, and if you have that planted, I'm too much, I'm too much, you'd probably hold back a part of yourself.

Doug 21:17

Yeah.

Jesse 21:17

Two people.

Doug 21:18

Totally. Yeah.

Jesse 21:19

It's funny, this is a lot common in women. I hear this a lot. They fear that they're too much.

Doug 21:23

Yeah. Can I give you an example from my life of like a self-limiting belief of like something that I would struggle with and just how they kind of get formed?

Jesse 21:29

Yeah.

Doug 21:30

For me, say I was all like in my life, I was sort of always worried that I was out of time. It was like, I'm out of time. I gotta get this done soon. And if I don't get it done soon, I'm behind. And and I think I started to form that mindset over like my high school and college age time, where I'm out of time. I'm out of time. I'm if I don't finish soon, I'm out of time. If it's not done now, I'm out of time. If I'm not done now, it's out of time. That thought started to become a belief about the Way that the world is. And it then became limiting because I didn't, if I felt like I couldn't get something done quickly, I didn't want to do it. I wanted to only pursue things that I could get done quickly. And I was sort of racing through things to finish because I felt like if I finish, then I'm I'm like keeping up with the right thing. And it just became limiting to me. I was like trying to race through college classes and race through things and get things done. And then that became a huge problem for me because I it I was not really giving things the time that they deserve.

Jesse 22:31

And infertility, that was like rampant.

Doug 22:33

Exactly. So this is a perfect example to like converge the two. Is if you have those self-limiting beliefs that you formed over your life, infertility is probably gonna bring them all up. You know?

Jesse 22:46

Going back to your going back to like it likes to do.

Doug 22:49

Going back to the example of feeling like you're too much, you're now going through this like trauma of infertility, and you what do you want to do? Talk about it. Yes, but what if you think that you're too much for people?

Jesse 23:01

I'm gonna hold back. Can I actually give a different example? Are we bringing this back? What was this? Salt? What was the salt guy?

Doug 23:14

Salt bay?

Jesse 23:14

Salt guy? Salt bay.

Doug 23:16

But did does that make sense? Do you see how the two run into each other?

Jesse 23:20

Can I actually give an actual example of something I struggle with right now with this self-divining belief?

Doug 23:25

Yeah, sure.

Jesse 23:26

I just want to let you know if for anybody it has to do with our adopted children. So if you don't know our story, we have two adopted children, one private adoption, one out of foster care. Um, so just to if you if that is too much for you or too much to hear, you can pause and maybe skip ahead five minutes and then we will get back to that. But I just wanted to preface that. Um I think as as you were talking, I was thinking, I was like, how does this show up now? And I think I think I was, I thought my whole life that I would be a really good mom. Infertility made it so I couldn't become a mom through biologically, biological children. And I think it told me you're not gonna, you do you don't either deserve this or you don't get to exercise that muscle, or you're not gonna be a good mom. Like this is why this is kind of happening. Um, and so when we transfer, when we went into adoption, I think something that happened kind of behind the scenes for me as our children get have gotten older, one is 12, one is 15, I have almost looked to them to tell me that I'm good. So I think a self-limiting belief I've had in the background is I'm good. See? See, I'm good at this. I'm good at this, I'm good at this, I'm good at this. And there's nothing like a teenager that will remind you that you are not. So I think something that I've actually been dealing with in therapy, I'm just being super vulnerable, is that I think I'm looking to them to tell me I'm good. And I think that happened in my life, and then infertility kind of took that and ran with it and made it rampant. And now I really have to remind myself I can't look at them to tell me that I'm good. Yeah, I have to be good. I have to replace it with something else because I'm looking to them. And it it I would say it's self-limiting, and I would say it's not good for our relationship, really. Because I'm bringing that, be like, I'm good, right? I'm good, right? I'm good, right? And good at this. I finally get to exercise this muscle. Like, tell me that I'm good. I am a good mom. And I'm almost looking for them to tell me something about myself. That would be a self-limiting belief, right?

Doug 25:30

Yeah, I would say it's the way I would say it is it sounds like, and thank you for being for being vulnerable.

Jesse 25:37

I think I self-doubt. I think it's a self-doubt that I have is that I doubt that I'm a good mom because infertility told me I wasn't gonna be and I wasn't gonna be good at it. Somehow that got translated in there. And now a doubt that I have with them is am I? Am I am I? And I'm going to them to fill something in me. And they can't do that. Only I can.

Doug 25:58

Yeah, I think that is a very real example. Like, thank you for being vulnerable. That is exactly actually what you're going through. Yeah. I think what I would say is the self-limiting belief, it is, it is all sort of based on this self-limiting belief you have, like a an untrue reality that you're that you believed, which is if I'm a good mom, then uh, then I'm good. Right.

Jesse 26:18

I'm then I'm worthy. Yes.

Doug 26:19

I'm worthy and I'm a good and I and like everything's like all thumbs up and green lights if I'm a good mom. Yes. When you couldn't become a mom, it was like, well, how am I gonna know if I'm good? Right. And that is like um was a massive panic of yours of like, well, I have to become a mom because that's part of how I know if I'm thumbs up and green lights and good. And and then now that you have some like teenage children who don't confirm to you that you're being a good mom, it's that same self-limiting belief, which is, yeah, but I have to be a good mom to be worthy. I have to be a good mom to be good. Yes. So I have to be good to be good. Right. And if you're not giving me feedback that I'm good, then it's calling into this belief that I'm not good, that I'm not good. Right. I'm not worthy.

Jesse 27:04

Right, right.

Doug 27:05

So it's calling into yeah, it's calling into question like the entire what you think about yourself.

Jesse 27:09

Right.

Doug 27:09

Because you've you've had this untrue belief. You are worthy, you are good, right? No matter if you ever got pregnant, right, which we never did, right? No matter if you we ever adopted, right, or if you ever, if your kids liked you or didn't like you, you are a good, you are good as a person, you are worthy as a person to be loved and cared for and have all the good things. Right. But it do it is totally, I would say, based on a self-limiting.

Jesse 27:34

Yeah, I think I had that thought before infertility, and infertility just manifests. So why I why I'm saying this is because I feel like people say all the time infertility never never leaves you. And this is just even something new that I am dealing with from infertility. And I don't mean that as in like I'm doomed or you're doomed, you're gonna have this affect you the rest of your life. But I'm like, it does, it does happen in ways that I didn't even think. And I remember my therapist mentor was like, I think you're looking at them to tell you that you're a good mom. And I'm like, and it's like they can't do that, but it is, it started with that self-doubt. I think it starts with the self-doubt of like, I don't think I am, yeah, because infertility told me I wasn't gonna be that sometimes got planted, so I'm looking to them to tell me. Yeah, and I can't look at them to tell me, especially a teenager.

Doug 28:25

Totally. I think, and now transitioning to for all of us. Yes, I think all of us have a ton of self-limiting beliefs. They're all over the place, and we picked them up all along the way.

Jesse 28:39

Wait, can I have another example?

Doug 28:40

Yeah, actually, pretty good.

Jesse 28:41

Yeah, it's a more infertility example. It does involve someone who is pregnant, but it would it will make sense of like it was I was not pregnant in the story. It was hearing someone's pregnancy that made me feel like I could see a self-limiting belief start. So it does have a pregnant person in it, but it's not me. Is my sister told all of our family that she was pregnant. We had already had one adopted child. I actually wasn't triggered by that. Right. I had done a lot of healing, done a lot of therapy. That wasn't the part that was triggering, which is shocking. But um that wasn't triggering to me, that part hearing that story. What was hard for me, and I think a self-limiting belief started to form? Form. I almost said garden. That wouldn't have made any sense. Um, form is a better word, is she told us that she was pregnant, my mom was there, my sister was there, she comes and starts talking to my mom, and my mom starts telling her all her birth stories of us. Boom. Boom. Oh my gosh. It was like, you know that scene in Bugs Life where it's like he goes like and it's like I said, it's like in that moment, I wasn't even I was totally fine with the pregnancy announcement. It was that where I went, oh my gosh. And the self-woman belief happened where I thought they are gonna be closer than me and my mom will be. Yes. They will be closer because they have this connection of, oh, I wonder if it'll be like this when with mine, or I wonder if it'll be like this with mine. And it was like, I watched it and I was like, oh my gosh. And it like, it totally started to fester. Like they are gonna be closer. Like it did. It like I know that's where it'd be like self-limiting belief, but it's like it was a self-limiting belief that I had that my mom and my sister would be closer because they would both have given birth than me and my mom.

Doug 30:34

I totally think that that is a self-limiting belief. We don't normally name them and understand them so clearly. Right.

Jesse 30:40

There's sort of just until like years later. I was like, oh.

Doug 30:43

Yeah, but I just think there are like feelings and intuitions that we have where we're just go like, ugh, you know, we just I think it comes across to us first, like, oh, I have this worry. I and I think that's why we named the episode self-doubt. Like I have this self-doubt, like I'm doubting myself all of a sudden.

Jesse 30:58

Well, in that moment, I thought, oh, I must have been more triggered about the pregnancy announcement than I thought, like when I went home. And then after processing it, I'm like, no, no, no, it wasn't that.

Doug 31:06

Yeah, it was that. I would say your self-limiting belief is my siblings who give birth will be closer to my parents because they give birth. Yes. And I it since I didn't give birth, I will I won't be close to my parents. And that is totally self-limiting. Yes. First of all, it's untrue.

Jesse 31:21

Right.

Doug 31:22

And but that's the the hallmark of a self-limiting belief is it's that we're believing some untrue reality.

Jesse 31:27

Right, right.

Doug 31:28

So it's not true, but it becomes self-limiting because now, say, you know, a couple of days, a couple of weeks goes by, and you don't call your mom and you go, Yes, well, why reach out? Because she's probably closer to my sister anyway.

Jesse 31:38

Right.

Doug 31:38

You know, right. That becomes limiting.

Jesse 31:40

Yep.

Doug 31:40

It's limiting in your growth.

Jesse 31:41

That's why I was thinking garden because I was like, yep, and then it gets lower, and then it gets lower in the dirt, in the dirt, and the dirt.

Doug 31:47

Yeah, like your growth is now limited as a person because you you have this untrue belief in there.

Jesse 31:54

And do you feel like suffering beliefs hold us back from growing?

Doug 31:58

I think that's the main thing they do, is they hold us back from growing. Yeah. Yep. There is things that, like, you know, you're going through a hard time and you're like, oh, I should call my mom, you know? Yes.

Jesse 32:08

But if you have that belief and that belief is in the garden lower and getting more in the dirt in the soil, that's a great way to put it. In the soil, then I'll be like, oh, I won't call her because she's probably talked to my sister or whatever, they're way closer or whatever.

Doug 32:21

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yep. So all of us have these things. We formed them throughout our entire lives. There's big ones that infertility triggers, like, am I too much for people? Or um, am I worthy? Right. You know, like I'm not worthy of good stuff. You know, maybe you had a dad or a mom, or so like you don't deserve anything, like some really hard thing like that happened, but then you form this belief of like, yeah, I don't deserve anything. Good things don't happen to me, you know? Like that happens. That's a lot of at times. I think people form that belief is everything always goes wrong for me. Yeah. Yeah. That's totally a self-limiting belief because then as you approach every situation, well, everything always goes wrong for me, you know.

Jesse 33:01

Right, right.

Doug 33:02

You go into infertility and someone says, you know, I think you're maybe dealing with infertility here. Of course, everything goes wrong for me. Yeah, yeah. Becomes self-limiting.

Jesse 33:09

Right, right.

Doug 33:10

And and I would say infertility deliver it brings up the old ones and it deli and it delivers new ones. You know, maybe ones that you didn't have before, like what you were just that's a perfect example.

Jesse 33:22

Yeah, I did not have that before. I would not have thought that.

Doug 33:24

I felt very secure because my siblings and my because I don't have a birth story, I won't be as close to my mom. That's that's a fresh self-limiting belief.

Jesse 33:32

A fresh baked right before my eyes.

Doug 33:34

Freshly baked for you from infertility.

Jesse 33:36

Yep, yep. I think even my sister-in-law came to check on me because I I think something happened in that moment that I wasn't even aware of, like even on my face, of like, that's happening.

Doug 33:46

One of the things we do in our process groups, which I would encourage, encourage everyone to do if it's like if you ever wanted to do this. I don't know if everyone, anyone ever want to do this, but it would be a good practice, right? Is sit down in the morning or at work whenever you have free time. A lot of people have free time at work, and just even just like even on a notes app on your phone or something, yeah. Just be like, what are some of these things that I bet I picked up from my childhood? Yeah, you know?

Jesse 34:13

Yeah.

Doug 34:13

And you don't, they don't have to be perfect, you don't have to like, you know, be all super hardcore about it. Right. But you could be like, oh my gosh, I totally believe I've always believed this, and it's probably not true. Right. Another person sometimes helps.

Jesse 34:24

I feel like I feel like it's like you could answer, is that true?

Doug 34:27

Yeah.

Jesse 34:28

Is that true?

Doug 34:28

The problem is sometimes we do think that they're true because the the belief has become now almost part of the fabric of our reality. Right, right. So sometimes another person helps. Right. Actually, sometimes a therapist helps, right? If that's ever like your, if you're like, if that you like that kind of stuff, that could be helpful. Uh like if you have a spouse, right? You could be like, oh, like over if you drink wine, have a glass of wine and be like, what are these things that I feel like I believe? And you, you know, they'll pop up. Right. You start to think of me because you kind of get an intuition, like, that's probably not true. You know, it's probably not true that I'm unworthy of good things. You know, where did that come from? You kind of figure it out.

Jesse 35:06

I think a lot of this is the difference, and this is why I would encourage to bring in people because I think we cognitively know that. Yeah. Everyone that I say that they say, I feel like I'm a failure because I can't get pregnant. Yeah, everyone cognitively knows that that's not true.

Doug 35:24

Yeah. It's not, it's not where the it's not where the belief lives, though.

Jesse 35:28

Not exactly. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Is most people can go, I know that's not true. I don't look at me. You never gave birth, Jesse, and think you're a failure.

Doug 35:39

Yeah.

Jesse 35:39

They cognitively know that it's just in, it's just hard to get it.

Doug 35:44

Somewhere right in between your rib cage, deep in there, that you're not just gonna go, yeah, oh, that's what it is. It's a deep lodge.

Jesse 35:52

That's what I would say in to bring in people, which I know we're gonna talk about how how we how do we reverse a self-limiting belief? But I think, yeah, I think it is different. It's like we cognitively know that, but we need to it to be reinforced in a different way.

Doug 36:09

Yeah.

Jesse 36:10

So how do we fix this? So I feel like we well, to the best of our abilities, defined a self-limiting belief.

Doug 36:22

I really like the word welly.

Jesse 36:23

Welly.

Doug 36:24

We really well.

Jesse 36:25

We really wellly uh defined self-limiting beliefs. And I feel like it's probably not something that is on the forefront of our minds all the time, but I think we all could gather and think, what is that? It's it's like something that is holding you back from your growth or being your best self. Yeah. You know what I mean? And we have them when we're growing up, we have the messages, and infertility either, if we had them growing up, likes to light whatever that is on fire, and they also like to give us new ones. So it's just like a really fun, so like it's a fun thing.

Doug 37:03

I do think it's like uh part of when people say, like, well, you know, what's the mental health struggle of infertility? Right, is it's bringing everything up. It's it's triggering, it's triggering everything, it's triggering all my self-limiting beliefs, all the self-doubt I have. Right. It's also delivering me new self-limiting beliefs. Right. And they like you shared very vulnerably, like they don't just go away. Yeah, because you maybe have children in your life, you know, or don't have children in your life. Right. Or and just the story changes. They are with you, like these beliefs, like we said, become part of the fabric of reality. So that's why it's difficult.

Jesse 37:38

Yep. Yep.

Doug 37:38

Okay, what do we do though?

Jesse 37:40

Yes. Well, so what do we do about this?

Doug 37:43

Okay, well, how where is their help? Let me read something from our groups, and then we'll unpack this because I think it sums up exactly what we do, what we need to do with self-limiting beliefs going forward. The good news about self-limiting beliefs is that they can be overcome. The bad news, thank God, the bad news is that we usually cannot simply stop having them. For example, if you have the self-limiting belief that you will not be happy unless you are in a relationship, you cannot just simply stop thinking that. The reason is that once something becomes a self-limiting belief, it becomes part of the way in which you view the world. Beliefs are tied to how we view the world working. We can't just throw them away because we don't like them or they're unhelpful. Our minds have adopted them as beliefs that are part of the fabric of reality. That's probably when we were saying, like, it's hard to find them. That like that's why, if anyone knew they believed something wrongly, they would just fix that. They would address that. You know what I mean? Like, if you believe that every time you jumped off the curb, you floated for four feet, like very quickly you would be like, Well, that's not true. Because every time I do it, it doesn't happen. Right. These beliefs about the fabric of ourselves and reality and and who we really are are hard to identify because we just take them to be true. I'm too much for people. I'll never be happy unless I'm in a relationship. Uh, my sister will be closer to my mom because she got per, you know, she got pregnant. Right. They just become part of the way we view the world. So if someone was like, what's something that that's a self-limiting belief, an untrue belief, you would be like, All my beliefs are true. Oh, of course it's true that my sister will be closer to my mom.

Jesse 39:29

Yeah.

Doug 39:29

You almost need some type of outside intervention for someone to be like, that's not true. Right. Your sister's not gonna be closer to your mom because just because she got pregnant. Right, right. You're like, wait, what? Really? Right. It's like it's almost shocking. Okay, so they're part of the fabric.

Jesse 39:43

That's why it's tricky with self-limiting beliefs because if you're down that road in the sea, it's in the soil really deep. You think it is true.

Doug 39:50

Yeah. The one of the biggest ones in infertility, and we'll just like name it and call it, is I like I won't have a purpose in life when I have to become a mom. Yes, like my life will be meaningless if I don't become a mom. Or my life will be meaningless if I don't have kids. Right. Like, what will I do? I'm a dad and I'm like a guy, and I pictured having kids on the baseball team and playing football, and right and my life will have no meaning. Yeah, fishing and all this kind of stuff. And I don't know why I went to fishing, but you know what I mean. Like all these things that you had pictured. If I don't have that, my life will just be meaningless. Right. And that becomes a huge self-limiting belief because well, we're struggling to get pregnant. How do I get that? Your back up backs up against the wall of my life will be meaningless. How do you overcome that? You can't just stop thinking that. It's part of the way that you view the world. Right, right. Instead, we must replace these thoughts. We must replace these self-limiting beliefs. We can't just dump these unwanted self-limiting beliefs because but we can overcome them with true reality. You can't just dump them, but you can overcome them with true reality. We do that by fostering a true belief that is counter to the false belief. Remember the person who thinks that she's too much.

Jesse 41:02

Remember, if you need an example, my face.

Doug 41:05

It will be impossible for her, impossibly hard for her to just stop thinking that she's too much for people. But after sharing with some friends and confirming that with her friends, indeed, they do love the fullness of her personality. She must form a new belief, one that is based on actual reality. Her new belief could be this: people enjoy my personality and my thoughts. Her goal is not to root out the old bad belief, but instead to water this new healthy true belief. One day the healthy belief will outgrow the other and become the dominant way of feeling.

Jesse 41:41

She knew my soil would be a good example. Gardening. I like that. It's not, I I I really, really like that because it's not that it's gonna go away.

Doug 41:51

It really won't go away.

Jesse 41:52

That will probably be, that will always be who I am, is like, am I too much? It's that what am I starving and what am I feeding?

Doug 42:00

It'll be a sphere that just sits there. Like something you'll be like, I'm believing that I'm I'm believing that old belief again that I'm too much for people. You have to, it's not just gonna go away. Right. It's part of the way you viewed the world. Right. You have watering the new one, giving attention to the new one will hopefully outgrow it and become the dominant way of thinking.

Jesse 42:18

It's kind of like star feed. You're starving this thought and feeding this thought. Doesn't mean that this is gonna not be there. You're just you're just feeding and fostering and watering this new idea.

Doug 42:29

Yes. Yeah. So let's be very tangible. If someone has the thought, my life will only be meaningful if I become a parent.

Jesse 42:36

Yeah. Which is a very common thing.

Doug 42:38

Which is very common. And you may be even sitting there thinking, no, that is true. Like I my life will have no meaning if I don't become a parent.

Jesse 42:45

Right.

Doug 42:45

Well, that well, guess what? It's becoming limiting. It's just it's limiting to your growth as a person because you're now at a full stop until you get pregnant. Right. You don't know how to even life. This is why all the research and the research that we did says there is a drop in people's sense of meaning in life during infertility. It's because it meaning is attached to being a parent and you're not, you're struggling to get pregnant. So meaning has like stopped full. You're just sort of waiting. You're like waiting at the train station for the child to arrive, and then you're like, okay, and then we can be on my way, and that life can be meaningful again. It becomes limiting to your own growth. I think a new thought is many things in life can make my life meaningful. Many things can make my life meaningful. Children would be a huge thing that makes my life meaningful. Also, also, my passion, the things that I want to do in life, my relationship with my spouse, if you have a spouse, my relationship with my family, the outpouring of the things that I believe in, all these things make my life meaningful. Obviously, that's a really long belief.

Jesse 43:50

Right.

Doug 43:50

You could shorten it and make it better. Right. But I think you could just say many things give my life meaning.

Jesse 43:55

Right.

Doug 43:56

And children is one of them.

Jesse 43:57

Because if you have The self-limiting belief that my life will only have meaning if I have children, then if it happens for you, that also could be problematic. My life only has meaning because I'm a parent.

Doug 44:14

It's still a self-limiting belief.

Jesse 44:15

It's still a self-limiting belief.

Doug 44:17

Because when it will pop up again, when they move out.

Jesse 44:21

I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. Like, so what will happen? That's exactly what I was gonna say. So what will happen when they move out?

Doug 44:29

Or when they go to school.

Jesse 44:31

Or when they go to school, or say you don't have a good relationship with them, or you know what I mean? Something happens. Like there's it's like I think that's why this is like such imperative work. Self to me. Imperative work. Because even if the self-limiting belief does come true, like, ah, now I finally can have meaning. Like, that's also a lot to put on a baby.

Doug 44:56

Right.

Jesse 44:56

That's also a lot to put on a child. You are what gives my life meaning. I have people in groups that I feel like their parents did that to them. Yeah. That it's like, oh, now my life has meaning because you are here. Like, that's just really heavy to put on really anyone. And a baby could be one of them. Can we go back to your very like vulnerable example of like if that's okay, it's I want to make sure that if it listened, I think we can say it like this.

Doug 45:21

Your your thought was this self-limiting belief kind of started to form. If I'm a good mom, then I'm good. Yes. If I'm a good mom, then I'm good.

Jesse 45:30

Well, no, I think I think it's like I'm I'm a good mom. I I know I'm a good mom.

Doug 45:34

Yeah, and I want to be a good mom. If you are, then that means you're worthy and you're a good person. You're good.

Jesse 45:39

Yes.

Doug 45:39

So if you're a good mom, then everything's good, then everything is good. Right. And and all throughout life, there's a lot of things that could confirm or deny that. But then your goodness and your worth is tied to that is tied to something like that. Right. Where a better, probably watering a healthier belief would be my worth is tied to who I am as a person, not just my mothering. Yes. There's many things that my worth is tied to.

Jesse 46:03

Right.

Doug 46:03

You know, and my worth is something that is is universal.

Jesse 46:06

I doesn't I I put that on my kids. I put that on my kids that you have to tell me that I'm good.

Doug 46:13

Yeah.

Jesse 46:13

And that's a lot to put on them.

Doug 46:15

Yeah.

Jesse 46:15

That's a lot to put on them and say, you have to tell me that I am good. It's like, you know what I mean?

Doug 46:20

Yeah. Okay. Let me say this then, because I think so.

Jesse 46:24

I kind of did that. That example that I just said, I did that. Yeah.

Doug 46:28

I this is probably me overstating. And if you're like a psychologist or a you know a therapist, you're probably like, no, there's a lot more to it. And there is, but I really do think. But this is your belief. My belief. It I do think that the you really, if you were looking to sum up the entirety of our mental health journey in life, it could be this finding the ways that we have untrue beliefs and replacing them with healthier beliefs. It could be true about the way you view yourself, the way that you view your relationships, the the way you view your worth. It could be about the way you view your relationships and the way you show up in relationships, and you know, the way you think about how you know your own emotions and feelings, and replacing them with healthier beliefs. It's sort of as the I think the Of Peace. I would just say if you had to name one thing that it's like this is what your mental health journey is, I would say it's this. It's replacing things, replacing self-limiting beliefs.

Jesse 47:27

Replacing self-limiting beliefs.

Doug 47:28

I think it's at so much at the core of what of what we're doing.

Jesse 47:31

Right.

Doug 47:32

But here's the thing is it's a sort of lifelong journey. Something we still Yeah, like I'm fine, we're always finding untrue beliefs. So I think it's I think infertility is a great time and it's an opportunity to start figuring them out because they're probably hurting now more than ever before.

Jesse 47:48

I always say that infertility is not a gift, right? But it is an opportunity to grow. It's just not the way I wanted to grow.

Doug 47:58

Right.

Jesse 47:58

Which often is what I'm realizing in my life is it's often the way that I didn't want it to happen.

Doug 48:05

Exactly. Always a good practice that you could have would be on that same notes app or on a piece of paper, one column is self-limiting beliefs, and the other column is the things that I'm gonna replace those beliefs with. At uniquely knitted, because of some of the psychologists that we work with, we use this wording, this will be stronger than that, that this new belief will be stronger than that old belief. And it sort of highlights the idea that you're just not gonna stop thinking the old belief, um, but you can water and you can nurture and grow this new healthy belief that one day this new belief will be stronger than that old belief. I think that's a really that's an amazing practice to see.

Jesse 48:51

We call it in our longer process groups, we call it a this over that statement. Like this, and I have this like book that we did for our longer process groups. If you're watching us on video, you can see it. But it is this new belief will be stronger than this old belief. I always thought I wanted to do it in reverse. I always wanted to do it. Well, and then like be better, but it really is. It's the new belief is gonna be is gonna be um over and stronger than that old belief. Example of you know, an old belief would be I have no purpose without children.

Doug 49:27

Right.

Jesse 49:27

And the new belief is my purpose is found in the person that I am. Right. So the person that I am is first found in the person that I am, and the old belief is I have no purpose.

Doug 49:37

The one the one that I really like is like my value and meaning in life comes from many things. And children is one of them for sure. Yeah. If I'm never able to have children, it would be a grief if that doesn't happen. A huge grief.

Jesse 49:48

It is, right.

Doug 49:48

And something I have to process and something that changes my life forever. Right. But it doesn't mean all of a sudden I become worthless or my life has no value or meaning.

Jesse 49:57

Right.

Doug 49:57

My meaning is tied to many things.

Jesse 49:59

Right.

Doug 50:00

You know, and my worth is tied to many things.

Jesse 50:02

Right. When we kind of we do this in our groups, yeah. We have everybody share their story, and at the end, we really harp on that we're just going to reflect back to them. Reflect what what came up for us and what do we see in them. And it is kind of a way that what we're doing is we are and no advice, like we are kind of trying to give stronger statements to the person. You know what I mean? So we we do that in our groups too, kind of is we I don't want to say kind of, we do that in our groups as we like share our stories and we're vulnerable and then we get reflections back. Um and I think that that's kind of trying to foster new beliefs about ourselves.

Doug 50:45

As we close, if someone was if someone was trying to figure out like what's their first step, like what would you do? What what would you do to be like, okay, I want to figure out my self-limiting beliefs? What would be like the number one? I think this is like if you've struggled with self-doubt and you're like, I have all these self-limiting beliefs, these things are all coming up because of infertility, I'm getting new ones, and I want to sort of figure it out. I think I would start trying to write down what are the self-limiting beliefs I have. They're hard to find. What would you do?

Jesse 51:16

I think I try to get really vulnerable with a journal or something and like do I am this? Like maybe some positive things first or whatever. What are you? You are a kind person, you are whatever. And then maybe try to go a little bit more vulnerable of like I also think that I am a failure, stuff like that.

Doug 51:38

This is where we're all in the same boat because I'm sure like we maybe we should like talk to some psychologists. We'll get some on the podcast, but and we'll talk about this later. Yeah, she's coming back soon. Um, and maybe we could talk to her about this, but I do think it is. I I don't think there's a universal way to do it. It's not like there's some way that everyone knows how to find self-limiting beliefs, and you this is how you do it. It's it's I do think it's unique and it's hard, and it's sort of that is the work is trying to find them.

Jesse 52:03

Right.

Doug 52:03

You know, right. So I it is hard to find them. I do think actually other people help a lot.

Jesse 52:07

Yeah, yeah.

Doug 52:08

You know, yeah, you or you hear other people's stories or you say stuff out loud for the first time and you go, ooh, that sounds right. Probably not true. I can't believe I thought that. Right. I can't believe I believed that. Right. You know, right.

Jesse 52:19

Like I believe maybe messages, thinking about messages that you heard when you were a kid. Yeah. Like what were strong messages that you heard? Maybe that you were loved, maybe that you weren't loved, but maybe it's like, oh, I heard a lot that you know what you accomplish is how you get your worth. I don't think it was said probably like that.

Doug 52:36

Yeah.

Jesse 52:36

But you know what I mean? Like, what are these things that you carry around? Because I will say that when you hear someone's infertility story, they're in there. Yeah. So I don't think they're as far away as you think. Yeah, but I just don't think they're attached to the self-limiting belief.

Doug 52:48

Yes. I think they're in there. Like for me, I would say it's not worth it unless I can be a young dad. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, where did that come from? I don't, I don't know. Right. I don't know. Right. And I just always assumed that. And once I sort of found it, I was like, what? That's so weird. And I can sort of try to replace it. But it took a long time. I always just like it's my gut reaction is to be like, I want to be a young guy.

Jesse 53:12

Right.

Doug 53:12

So I gotta get done quick, quick, quick, quick, you know.

Jesse 53:14

Right, right.

Doug 53:14

Sort of an anxious sort of hurrying up to do it. Right. And it took a long time to replace that with a different thought.

Jesse 53:20

Right.

Doug 53:21

And it's not gone completely, but you know?

Jesse 53:24

Yeah.

Doug 53:24

So I think it's hard to find those things. Yeah. And I think give yourself a lot of grace if it's even something that you're trying to do right now. Yes.

Jesse 53:30

Yes. And if you're like none of those examples was what I thought, like that's fine too. Like, you know, just be on your own journey and have grace with yourself. I have like I am like in therapy. I'm like in my own process group. And like it's freaking hard to grow.

Doug 53:48

It is.

Jesse 53:49

It's exhausting to grow, not impossible. And I think freedom and so much and being the the the fullest version of ourselves is so worth it. And being able to grieve and learn how to grieve and all that kind of stuff. But it is hard. It is not easy. It is not easy to grow.

Doug 54:06

So much of mental health is, I feel like coming to a realization where you're like, well, I wish that didn't happen. I wish I didn't form all these unhelpful, untrue beliefs. And I would, we would come alongside you and say, I know. Doesn't that suck? Right. Happened to us too.

Jesse 54:21

Right.

Doug 54:21

And is infertility bringing them all up? Yeah. And that sucks. Yep. I wish it didn't happen. You know?

Jesse 54:27

It is not a gift, but it is an opportunity to grow. Yeah.

Doug 54:30

Cause then the the question is like, well, well, that's where we're at. What do we want to do with all of it? Yes. I think it's replacing these health, replacing the untrue, self-limiting beliefs with healthy ones. Yes. Over a long period of time. Yeah. Throughout for the rest of your life.

Jesse 54:44

And I do think that people help that. What did Brandon Peterson say? Brennan Peterson say on our podcast a couple times ago. He said the brain is really hard to figure to like rechange a thought by itself. It actually can't do it. Yeah. Is that what he said? Basically, okay, wait, pause. He said it so much better than that. Like just go back and listen to that. I don't even know what that was called, but Dr. Brennan Peterson. Yeah. But he the way he talked about the brain and how the brain works, it's like, this is why I think we would encourage you to be with people, like bring it to your partner, bring it to our process groups, bring it to whatever.

Doug 55:18

Brennan, Brennan said that the mind is not great at solving its own problems sometimes. It just often can lead to rumination.

Jesse 55:24

Right. Which is self-limiting belief.

Doug 55:26

Yeah, well, yeah, like ruminating, you kind of can ruminate on this self-limiting belief. When you have an outside perspective, it can highlight maybe areas where we're stuck on things or ruminating on things.

Jesse 55:37

Right.

Doug 55:37

I have to get pregnant or I have no meaning. I have to get pregnant. And then someone from the outside can say, I think you your life would have a lot of meaning. Right. And it sort of interrupts that ruminating cycle.

Jesse 55:46

Right.

Doug 55:47

Yeah, absolutely.

Jesse 55:48

Right. So good.

Doug 55:50

Well, one thing that I have been wanting to say this entire podcast that I didn't say is that I don't know why I just want to tell everyone this, but the other day Jessie said, um, she said, you know how the saying says, cross your T's and dot your eyes? And you said, brush your teeth and dot your eyes. And I keep I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking about it.

Jesse 56:17

It was in a show, and I thought that's what he said.

Doug 56:20

You were like, I love that. I love that. You're like, I love that. Brush your teeth and dot your eyes. I was like, wait, that's not the saying. You know that, right? I can't stop saying it to myself.

Jesse 56:31

So brush your teeth and dot your eyes. That's that's it. Absolutely the takeaway. This over that statement. Oh my gosh. I think it's hilarious. I think it's genius.

Doug 56:42

I'm assuming.

Jesse 56:42

If you're like doing that, I'd be like, brush, just brush your teeth and dot your eyes.

Doug 56:46

We gotta make sure that we get this done and we gotta make sure we brush our teeth and dot our eyes.

Jesse 56:49

Brush our teeth and dot our eyes. Oops.

Doug 56:55

Thank you for listening to the Infertility Feelings podcast. This podcast is put on and produced by the nonprofit Uniquely Knitted. Uniquely Knitted exists to help people make it through infertility. If you feel like you've been struggling and you're just going through it and you want to tell your story, process, and build some resilience, we encourage you to join one of our process groups. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you soon.

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