Infertility Sucks

Jesse 0:00

Infertility just sucks. There is a need that I hear all the time in our process groups is I just need someone to tell me how much this sucks. So I can be validated in my feelings of just agitation and anger. So this podcast episode is just about how much it sucks. So pull up a seat to the shit talking table. That's it. This is gonna be a little bit different than any other infertility feelings podcast episode.

Doug 0:41

Yeah.

Jesse 0:42

Where I feel like we talk about the feelings, validate the feelings, and then give some sort of encouragement or hope. All we're doing today is validating how much this sucks. That one day that you want to turn on that song and just be like, ugh, so angry, we hope that you turn on our voices instead. And just like validate, it is probably the number one need in my process group, in our process groups, is yeah, I am so, I just need someone to tell me it sucks. And for that person to be like, yes, it does. Yeah. Because everyone, when you go out into the world to say how much it sucks, you either are being a downer, or you think you're being a downer, or it's wrapped up in some toxic posity. So there's not a lot of spaces that you can just say, this is stupid. This is frustrating and agitating and maddening and unfair and really just boiling, blood boiling.

Doug 1:44

I think that's a good point. I think when you talk about it out in the world, people feel sad about it. Oh, that's so sad that you can't get pregnant. Right. And then they're so uncomfortable with how sad it is. They try to make you feel better by saying, it'll happen, it'll happen. Right. Like, you know, good things come to those who wait. Still waiting.

Jesse 2:02

I should, I should still waiting on that weight.

Doug 2:06

But I think the but the need is not met then. Right. Because you don't need someone to feel sorry for you or to give you some kind of like pot like silver lining. Maybe you're like desperate that there is gonna be a silver lining, but it doesn't necessarily always feel very good. Right. What you need is someone to be like, oh my gosh, I freaking hate infertility. Infertility sucks. Ass, whole, horrible, nasty, gross, bitch, ugly thing. In fertility. That's what you want someone to do. Yes. And then like pull out a cigarette and be like, sucks ass. And you're like, yes, thank you. That's the proper sort of maybe I'm just angry. Yes. I think I think that's what I wanted. Someone to be like, oh, oh, I hate infertility. Yes. You're like, yes, thank you. That's what I need. Right. You need someone to see how much this absolutely sucks. Yes. And it doesn't just suck like you know, as a whole, it sucks every day. Every day just sucks. Like the freaking having to wait and figure out what you're gonna do and feeling behind and feeling like it just sucks.

Jesse 3:14

Yes.

Doug 3:15

I'm gonna probably say it sucks a 7,000 times on this episode.

Jesse 3:19

You know what I should do to keep myself angry in this episode is just write down that thing. Good things happen to those who wait.

Doug 3:26

And I can just read it and be like what for you, Jesse, what was the suckiest part? Or what are what are some of the suckiest parts about infertility? I just we'll just start listening them.

Jesse 3:37

Yeah, let's just start listening. How unfair it is. How do you not feel angry when it's unfair? And it's not like you're wanting something that's like not sweet and pure. You want something that's sweet and pure. Oh, I didn't win the lottery. Yes, yes, yes. I didn't win all of it when I put it all on black. Not that that would be that wrong, but like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's not like it's something that is what would that word be?

Doug 4:08

Like it doesn't seem rare. Like you're like, this seems like something that people can do is have children.

Jesse 4:14

Yes, right, right, right. Or I was thinking like it's a good intention.

Doug 4:18

And it's a good thing.

Jesse 4:19

It's a good thing. It's good intention. You have good intentions. It's like a very vulnerable, tender thing to want to grow your family. There's nothing wrong with that. There's literally nothing wrong with that.

Doug 4:29

Can I even add to that and say it's not only is it like nothing wrong with it, I actually felt like it was like a noble thing to do. Yes, right. We have like gotten together and we want to start a family. And I feel proud of that. And like, I'm going to like do this and it's a good thing to do.

Jesse 4:43

Right.

Doug 4:44

So then when it's held back, or when you can't do it, it just feels like a giant, a giant F you to you like to yourself, to your relationship.

Jesse 4:54

Yeah.

Doug 4:56

Right, right, right.

Jesse 4:58

And so that is so maddening to feel like it is so unfair and it's everywhere. It's everywhere. The unfairness. Um I think something that makes me really angry about infertility is I feel like I've met some of like the sweetest people in our process groups and just in this work, and that just makes me angry. That not the sweet people, they don't make me angry. That these sweet people are just getting beat down, punched in the face, heart squished, relationships trashed, money stolen by the universe. By the universe, gone, confused about their faith, like just miserable. And it's like, oh, like these sweet people, like these people are so sweet and pure. It shouldn't be happening to them. It shouldn't be happening to anybody. But like it's just like I think that's where I feel like, oh, like I just get so angry that it happens to people, which I'm probably angry that it happened to me. Probably is really the like what is the deep psychology? Is like, what is it saying about me? Is like I am angry for me.

Doug 6:15

Um like what else could make someone feel like, well, yeah, I was doing okay. Now I'm um I'm struggling a little bit more with depression. Right. I'm a lot more anxious. I don't know what the future holds. I don't feel like I have like a lot of meaning left.

Jesse 6:30

I'm broke, and I have no outlets because all my money is going to infertility if I can't go on a trip.

Doug 6:35

And oh, by the way, I don't know if I believe in God anymore. Like, God, infertility is the worst.

Jesse 6:40

I don't even mean to laugh. It's like because that sounds like a lot of people. But it's true.

Doug 6:43

It's like you would hear something like that and be like, well, that's a shh shitty thing for some whatever you're going through must suck.

Jesse 6:51

Right, right.

Doug 6:51

And you're like, yeah, we can't get pregnant.

Jesse 6:53

I really can't think of anything positive.

Doug 6:56

No.

Jesse 6:57

I think infertility is an opportunity to grow, yes, but I can't really think of anything positive.

Doug 7:04

No. Nope.

Jesse 7:06

Like a positive emotion or I'm like trying to think. Sometimes maybe say people say that like it makes the relationship stronger. Okay.

Doug 7:21

I you actually don't think that with infertility. I feel like no, it sucks all the way around.

Jesse 7:25

Right.

Doug 7:26

You know? I think people are miraculous and people can are resilient. Can grow and be resilient and make it through amazing things, but there's nothing that comes with infertility that is good or salvageable at all.

Jesse 7:39

Right.

Doug 7:40

Zero out of zero stars on Yelp. With seven million seven million reviews, zero stars. Not a good record. Not a good record. Don't eat at that place.

Jesse 7:55

Yeah, don't eat at that place. You might get poisoning. But then you have to eat at that place. Yeah. Because it's infertility. And if you want a baby and you have to do IVF, and that's the only way to do it, with your case or whatever, it's like you have to do it. Yeah. So that's what I mean of like, it's like you have to shake hands with something that's like evil. It's like, this is evil, and I'm shaking your hand. It's almost like a selling of your soul.

Doug 8:18

Yeah.

Jesse 8:18

Like I feel like it's like, I didn't want to do an IUI. Yeah. I didn't want to do an IVF cycle. I didn't want to do that at all. I didn't want to, but I felt like I had to shake its hand to be like, okay, I have to do this because then I will get the desires of my heart. And just how I think too, just the unfairness. Um there's nothing really positive there. And I feel like it changed me. And that made me angry. Like I still have a horrible relationship with hope. Like just like hope. So not only is it like the sweetest people ever that have this happen to them, it's unfair deeply. Um, I can't think of one positive emotion that you experience.

Doug 9:09

Right?

Jesse 9:09

Because maybe you would say that hope is a positive emotion, but then it gets like punched in the face and it's like, oh, never mind. You know what I mean? But like I feel like it is so much work. It's so much work for a possible reward. For a possible ending how you want it to. For a possible, it's like the biggest like Russian roulette ever. Like, and that is just so maddening.

Doug 9:39

Yeah. That is so mad hiring someone to build you a swimming pool, and they're like, okay, well, you're gonna get paid. And they're like, why don't you build the swimming pool first? And I'll think about if I'm gonna pay you. Like, well, I'm not gonna do that. Right, right. I wouldn't go through all that work and you're halfway through digging it, and you're like, by the way, I am not gonna pay you, but keep going. Right, right. You would never do that. Right. You would never put out that much work, that much energy for something that you're like, I hope that it pays off in the end. Right. I don't know. And and and not only is it like I hope it pays off in terms of like I get money, it's I hope I can live the life that I want to live. Yes. Feels so insane.

Jesse 10:15

That's existential.

unknown 10:17

Yeah.

Jesse 10:17

Like, I hope that I get this dream that I've always had since I was seven.

Doug 10:20

Yeah.

Jesse 10:21

Like, you know, it's just it's just such an unfair thing that you really don't want to experience too. I think I was very like, um, what do they say about teenagers? Angsty. I was like angsty towards it. Like, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_04 10:38

Yeah.

Jesse 10:38

Um, and that is just, it's just so hard. It's just so hard. So if you are angry, valid. Valid, valid, valid. It's all valid. It is extremely hard. It is exhausting. It is unfair.

Doug 10:58

Yeah.

Jesse 10:59

There is not a lot of positive emotions. You are a good person, and this is happening to you. It does confuse your faith. It it can. I say all this with it can. It's not everybody always feels all of those things, these things, but it's like it can really change you.

Doug 11:17

Yeah.

Jesse 11:18

It can change you, and it can make you into someone who, for me, was skeptical and bitter. I still have a such a confusing relationship with hope. Still.

Doug 11:29

Yeah.

Jesse 11:30

Um, and that's just all valid. It does suck. It is exhausting. It's not fair. It's not fair.

Doug 11:39

Yeah.

Jesse 11:39

And it is making something that should should be so pure and sweet and tender into something exhausting and hard. And then maybe even makes you doubt yourself, do I even really want this?

Doug 11:52

Right.

Jesse 11:52

Like anymore. Like I'm selling my soul here. And, you know, do I even really want this? Like it makes you also your desires and your dreams confusing.

Doug 12:00

Yeah, it makes you say weird things like, well, maybe we're not meant to be paid. Like when else would you say something so big like that? Or just like it puts you in a position where you're like, well, maybe God doesn't want us to have a baby. Like, oh, this infertility sucks. Right. If that's what it's making you think.

Jesse 12:18

Right, right, right. It like confuses your dreams. So confuses your dreams. And just like these desires that you've had for so long. It's almost like two, like you want to like not feel them anymore. I remember somebody said in my group recently, which I loved this. I'm like, I totally had this. Why we were talking about their faith. Um, but they were talking about like, why would I be made to be good at this?

Doug 12:44

Yeah, like why would you be made to be a good parent?

Jesse 12:46

You mean yes, like why would I be made to feel like I would be good at this? Like I'm good with kids. Yeah. They flock to me. Like, and I'm like that too. I'll walk into a party and all the kids run to me, like, oh, you know what I mean? It's like, I would be so good at this. That is so maddening. And infertility sucks.

Doug 13:05

Really sucks.

Jesse 13:07

Really sucks. Really sucks for f' sake.

Doug 13:10

There it is.

Jesse 13:11

There it is. I finally get my E on a podcast episode. I want it.

Doug 13:15

I I have a real.

Jesse 13:16

Some people want the check on Instagram. I want the E on our podcast episode.

Doug 13:21

I have a few specific things that I feel like just really suck about infertility. The first one is you don't know you have generally, you don't know you have it until you've been trying for a year. Right, right. 365 days. Can we talk about much that sucks? Right. You're like, I guess we'll just try to do this thing for about a year. And then if it's not going well, then maybe we'll figure out like that sucks that you have to do that. Right. And then you go, you're at the doctor at the place where you go to go take care of yourself, the place where if you were to have like a medical ailment, you would go. Right. And then they go, okay, so for you to figure out this specific part, you have a try for a year, sucks. And then they're like, Yeah, we can't. Well, we can't do anything about that here. You have to go somewhere else. Right. That sucks. And then you go somewhere else, and then they're like, All right, there's so much we can go. And fertility doctors are can be absolutely amazing and angels and help so many people. But they're like, okay, so this is gonna be really difficult. You know, like you're gonna have to learn a ton, you're gonna have to get a bunch of medicine and all, and and then immediately that much that medicine costs a ton of money, and that sucks. And you're like, figure out, well, at least my insurance will cover it. And then you're like, actually, the insurance doesn't even want to touch it in most cases. You're like, well, that sucks. And then from there, you're like, okay, well, what do I do? At least I got the insurance, I got all this stuff, figured all out. And they're like, okay, you're gonna take shots and their hormones, and they're all sorts of things, and they might make you go really like out emotional, be really like up and down, be just be really different than you normally are. You're like, okay, great, and then I'll have a baby, right? Well, not really. Maybe. Well, we're gonna do this thing, you know. You can maybe just like try naturally for a while, or you could do it like a procedure, but then you'll probably like every month, you'll have to wait for about like two weeks to figure out if it worked or not. And then during those two weeks, oh, by the way, you will literally not be able to think about another freaking thing on planet Earth.

Jesse 15:26

Yeah.

Doug 15:27

You're like, well, that sucks.

Jesse 15:28

And in the middle of all that, your relationships can be suffering. You were not talking to your mom as much, you and your partner are fighting.

Doug 15:35

Yeah, like is this like By the way, while you're you don't want to go outside because you don't want to see pregnant people, like while you're waiting, your um your mother-in-law is going to call you uh every day and ask you when you're gonna have grandkids. And then when you go to work, there's gonna be a baby shower. Somehow, during the two weeks where you're figuring out if you're pregnant or not, there's going to be a baby shower every day of the week. And because the universe hates you and people are trying to make you miserable, it just feels like an absolutely impossible situation. And you have to keep focusing on life because you need money to do all this stuff, and you can't just shut your life down for three years. I mean, you can try, but I don't know many people who are like, you know what, I'm taking the next five years to try to conceive. Like, that's not something you can normally do. You have you have a life, you have bills, you have a job, you have to go and do stuff. Some people are like teachers, some people are nurses who actually deliver children. Like you're surrounded by things, and then Halloween happens, uh, like a holiday happens, and they're like, everyone dress up your children as cute as you can. You're like, this. I just think the whole thing.

Jesse 16:50

It makes me angry thinking about what you just said. Well, actually, not listening to what you just said.

Doug 16:54

It just is like a twisted sort of sucky game that you feel like. You know the movie, uh, it's almost Halloween, so maybe I'm thinking about this, but you know the movie Um Saw? It's a horribly twisted example.

Jesse 17:06

I can't say I've seen it.

Doug 17:06

But it's like a guy who traps people and he puts them in this like weird pressure chamber or something. Yeah, or like a you have to like figure out games and then the games just slowly kill you. It cut sounds like a barn bird. Or like the Hunger Games, you know what I mean? Like you're gonna put everyone in this thing, and like you like good luck, our entertainment will be your survival. And I actually feel like inner like infertility in so many ways feels like that. Like, is there someone out there that is like being entertained by all of this? Because how is it possible that this many things, this many sucky things can happen to me this much? It just feels impossible. And I apologize on behalf of like mankind. We don't deserve this. I'd like to opt out of infertility.

Jesse 17:53

Yes. Opt out yeah, and and and just when I feel like I had accepted the suck thing that happened, the sucky thing that happened, I knew the thing that sucked would come to the surface. That's what it also likes to do, is it likes to serve you up all this stuff that sucks. And then it just goes, Oh, thought you were done. Nope. Throw it on. Thought you wanted our case, thought you wanted to adopt an infant. Oh, she changed her mind and she's gonna parent her chat. I was like, Oh, didn't expect to deal with that grief. Oh, here we go. Oh, you wanted to do an IVF cycle? Okay, you're gonna have tons of embryos, it's gonna be so great, and now you only have one and it doesn't stick. It's like these griefs that just keep rolling, just keep rolling, and it just sucks. It really does. It really does.

Doug 18:48

I also don't like all the things about that go with infertility. Obviously, a lot of people wouldn't I agree, but I really freaking hate even the like culture of infertility. Does that make sense? What do you mean? Like okay, maybe this is me just make me being personal and like ranting and or just like expressing my own anger. Like you can find out, okay, I'm struggling to get pregnant, and then you find out that there's meds and there's like IVF and there's IUI and there's like medication, all this stuff, and you can almost start to like get into it, and you can be like, okay, I'll get these, this things, and I'll buy these supplies, and I'll do this, and I'll have like an outfit that I wear for my transfer and all this stuff. And you can like almost like get into it, and I feel like I'm like, I hate that we have to have all of that. That feels like it sucks. Like the fact that, like, probably if you're listening to this episode, you you probably have like a bunch of like you have like one of those boxes that has like a thousand needles in it. Maybe, maybe you do, you know what I mean? Right. Or you've like you've like know these drug companies that sell these meds, you know. I mean, I wish that we didn't have to know any of those. I wish that those drug companies made other drugs for other things. Right. Like, I hate that like all that the industry exists, if that makes sense. Maybe I've gone down a rabbit hole. Right. I'm grateful for the doctors. Sure. And I love grateful for the medicine too. And I'm grateful for the medicine. I'm grateful for the companies that are doing it. I'm just like, why does this have to exist? Like, why does this have to be such a thing and and such a like industry? Like, I like the infertility industry is huge, right? But I'm like, ugh, F that. Like, I wish it didn't even exist. I wish people who could get pregnant could just get pregnant. Yeah. And it sucks that there's this whole thing grateful for it, but I think I'm I also want room to be like, no, F that. Like, F these shots. I don't want to do shit.

Jesse 20:44

Can it just be grateful for someone else? Can I be grateful for it for someone else, not me? Like, that's what I would want to feel. Like, I'm really grateful for this medicine and this and this thing that's happened where people can grow their family through medicine. Yeah, I don't I opt out. I don't want to be.

Doug 20:58

I think both can exist at the same time. I can be grateful for but I also can be like, this is shit. Right. This is all shit. Right. I don't want to take meds. My new friends. I don't want to go to the doctor and have them like I don't want to get producer sounds. I don't want to produce a sample.

Jesse 21:14

Right. Oh God.

Doug 21:16

That is not what I want to do.

Jesse 21:18

Yes. Like, right. I would say to quote myself, that's some baby back bullshit. Just to quote me. No, it's so, it's so is. It's so is. It's just, it just doles you out.

Doug 21:37

Yeah.

Jesse 21:38

It's like a cloud that's always there. You can't really see the sun. It just feels sad and bad and anxious and depressing. And I think that yeah, it's just hard to see the sun. It's just hard to see the light. It's hard to see it all. Um

unknown 22:01

Yeah.

Jesse 22:01

It just it sucks of all you have to do for it sucks for the decisions you have to make. It sucks for the um I feel like I'm trying to think of this this thought of like it also sucks to just admit that you're struggling. You know what I mean?

Doug 22:19

Yeah.

Jesse 22:20

And then to have to manage your relationships, and then to have to take shots, and then to have like, should I be positive? Should I be not positive? Should I be hopeful? Should I not be hopeful? Oh, I wasn't hopeful. Do you think that wasn't this because it worked? Oh, I was I wasn't hopeful. Does that mean I don't care? Like it's like like it's just Would you say it sucks to be what did you say?

Doug 22:38

It sucks to be stuck in your head like that.

Jesse 22:40

Yes, yes, right. And just and I think I think it also just sucks to admit that you're in it. Yeah. It's it sucks to shake hands with it and be like, and I am struggling with this, you know, and it is affecting my relationships and it does cost a ton of money. And these decisions are horrible to make. Like it just sucks. And it is, it's just unfair. And it really, that unfairness can really build and make me really angry.

Doug 23:11

What was the suckiest part for you? Like if you have to when you think about it, was there a part that was like, if there's one thing that stands out as the absolute suckiest of sucks, what would it be?

Jesse 23:24

Not having a baby. It's just such a pure desire to want. Tender thing to want and to you know do all this and to have to and just to not work. It's like that's really what it is at the end of the day, is that you just want a baby.

Doug 23:57

Yeah.

Jesse 23:58

And you just think if I keep pushing myself, even in these annoying, frustrating things, I'll get it, because it's right around the corner. And sometimes it is for people, and sometimes it's not. And the thing that sucks the most is that you just are ready to grow your family, and there's nothing wrong with that. And to want a baby, and to even want a baby that looks like you. I thought we would make a really cute kid. You know what I mean? I love my freckles. I've always wanted to pass down my freckles. It's like it's just it just really sucks that you can't when you can't do that. You know? And everything you're doing in it also sucks. So that is the pinnacle of the suck, is that you just want a baby and you just want to grow your family, and then you have to do something that also sucks. So it's just it makes me angry and it makes me sad for people that are just experiencing this. You know, it's lonely, it's depressing, it's isolating, you know. And those all of those suck. None of those are like yay. You know, they suck. And so, but the the biggest piece for me was that I just wanted to have a baby.

Doug 25:22

Yeah.

Jesse 25:22

And I wanted us to have a baby.

Doug 25:24

Yeah.

Jesse 25:26

Not that I think I wanted to have a baby with someone else. But like I really wanted like Doug and Jesse to have a baby and like meet that baby, and what that would that baby be like? What would they grow up like? And would they have my personality? Would they have your personality?

Doug 25:41

You know, so and to lose that is so painful.

Jesse 25:50

And to keep working on that desire, there's nothing wrong with wanting that desire and keep going. But it's like knowing when to stop sucks. Knowing when to keep going sucks. Not being on the same part on the same page with your partner of what you want to do and pursue sucks. Like it just does.

Doug 26:06

Yeah.

Jesse 26:07

And it just comes out of such a pure place, which sucks.

Doug 26:12

Yeah.

Jesse 26:13

Of like it's such a pure thing to want, and then for it to just be like maybe.

Doug 26:22

Right. See? Infertility sucks. Yeah. Good god.

Jesse 26:32

I can still tap into it.

Doug 26:35

Good God, it sucks. I think something that you said I would build off of is for me, the suckiest part is there's something incredibly sad happening. Yeah. And incredibly painful happening. And then on top of that, you're delivered one of the hardest things to do in the entire world, which is go through an enormous battle.

Jesse 26:59

Right.

Doug 27:00

That is in whatever way you're trying to do it. In whatever way you're trying to do it.

Jesse 27:03

Whether you're just trying every month sucks.

Doug 27:06

Whatever way you're trying to grow your family, it's so incredibly sad and overwhelming that you're like locked in sort of like this sadness prison. Right. And you're like, is there any way out of it? And then someone comes and like, there is, well, there's a couple options for you. Each none guaranteed. Each of them excruciatingly difficult, you know? And none of them are guaranteed. So you're like delivered this like incredibly hard project to do on top of being very sad. And that's where I feel like, oh, F that. It just sucks.

Jesse 27:37

On top of being an adult.

Doug 27:39

Yeah.

Jesse 27:39

And having bills and having a job and you know what I mean? And stresses in life and family dynamics and illnesses. And you know what I mean? Like it's like on top of all that, too.

Doug 27:50

Yeah. That we tech. I just think of someone like a like a couple maybe going through infertility, both of them maybe working, trying to figure out the insurance. Yes. Maybe their insurance covers a little bit and they're trying to manage that, or they're trying to figure out do we do this or this? Do we go with this doctor? They have in-laws who are talking about it. They talk about it, but they don't love talking about it. I'm just like, that is it's hard enough to just live and exist and be alive in this world and manage all the crap you gotta manage. And then you add this. It's just it's sort of heartbreaking. And from the from the outside is heartbreaking. From the outside, too. There's nothing you can do. You can't like take that away from someone, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Jesse 28:34

Which is what what as the world we're so uncomfortable with.

Doug 28:37

Yes.

Jesse 28:38

We can't just sit and let people just be angry or let people just be sad.

Doug 28:42

Well, I just the average, I think that as people, that is just not something that is like, we're, I don't know. We're just like, I want to take that away from you. I wish I could take that away from you. I don't know how to take it away from you. I don't know how to make this all better. Right. But if I could, I absolutely would make it better. Right. And even being on the recipi receiving end of that sucks. Yes, yes.

Jesse 29:03

You feel like you'll look different about your people.

Doug 29:05

Yeah. You're like, I know I'm making you miserable and you want this to change for me. Right. But for some reason that's not helping, you know. Right, right. For some reason that sucks too.

Jesse 29:14

Right. And then now baby showers suck.

Doug 29:17

Right.

Jesse 29:17

And Target sucks. And for me, Disneyland sucked. Didn't suck before that. And then I met infertility, and I'm like, oh, there's just kids everywhere. When when did all these kids come here? I wasn't really thinking about you. I was only thinking about myself and how I was experiencing this. And now you're here. Yeah. Um, and then you get to see bad parenting. If you want to see bad parenting, just go to Disneyland. Um, but it's like, so it just does. It's just like there's so many things that just suck about it.

Doug 29:44

Yeah.

Jesse 29:46

It's so weird for me. I want to like give encouragement, and I'm really holding back from just being like, but there's hope. It's like, I'm just, I'm just sitting in it. I'm just, and I think that even shows it's like even sitting in it right now.

Doug 30:02

Yeah.

Jesse 30:03

Sitting in it right now, just talking about it, yeah, makes me want to run away from it. Yes. Makes me want to be like, oh yes, I remember all this. I don't like this. And I hate that. And I and genuinely, I hate that people go through this. That's the genuine feeling.

Doug 30:15

Um the reason why you shouldn't immediately run to encouragement, even for yourself, if you are struggling to get pregnant, you're listening to seps and you're like, uh, infertility sucks. And this is maybe the first time you've ever even heard people talk about how much infertility sucks, right? You might be tempted to be like, but it's gonna be okay. But but doing that, making it immediately better, is not giving the time that is deserved to how much it sucks. Yes. The reality is you are, I am, Jesse, is we all hate infertility so much. Right. And if we try to move on to the next part of it too quickly, we won't properly deal with these emotions. Right. So, yes, this is an entire episode about how infertility just sucks.

Jesse 31:01

And one thing I would want to say, too, maybe you're the type of person that is not sure if you should be angry or sad, or if it does suck. And I just want to say, it's okay to be angry. Oh, it's okay to be angry. Free the beast, please. Free the beast, baby. Like, it is okay to be angry. Maybe you're more someone that is like more on that positive side. Like, no, no, no, no, let's just get through it and like, because that is people sometimes experience it that way. And it's like, it's okay. It's okay to let your guard down and be like, oh no, I'm actually, this is totally unfair.

Doug 31:35

Yeah.

Jesse 31:35

This is totally unfair. This is totally like putting pressure on all my relationships, and I don't want to do any of this.

Doug 31:42

Yep.

Jesse 31:42

I don't want to do any of this. Can I learn this lesson some other way? Like, I don't want to do it. So it's also okay to be angry and to think that it sucks. Because guess what?

Doug 31:56

I think a lot of times we think anger is a secondary emotion. And I'm not really angry. I know. I'm actually just sad. Anger is a primary emotion. You're allowed to just be angry. I don't even think it's new research. And who made that up? People often say you're not really angry, you're sad. I say that. And a lot of times it's true. But it's not like you're not, oh, you're not angry. What you really are is sad. No, anger is a primary emotion. Sometimes we're angry. We're angry that this happened to us. Right. We're angry that we have to spend all this money doing this. We are angry and we're pissed off. Not only angry, we are pissed off that I have to be in this position. You're allowed to feel that hard stop. You don't need to go, but in reality, I'm also, I'm, I'm really just sad. Well, you also can be sad. Totally.

Jesse 32:51

Right, right, right.

Doug 32:52

It's also sad. It's also sad. It's okay to be absolutely violently pissed and absolutely completely devastated at the same time. They don't, one doesn't disappear.

Jesse 33:05

Right.

Doug 33:06

You know?

Jesse 33:06

Right.

Doug 33:07

Anger, feel it. Sometimes if you're in your car right now and you just want to say, I hate infertility.

Jesse 33:13

Right.

Doug 33:14

Let it out. Yes. Let it out. Scream it out. I'll scream with you. One, two, here we go. Three. I can't scream. I don't have a good scream. This is my thing.

Jesse 33:27

Maybe because maybe because we just watched Coco, but you sound like when he's trying to like do that thing. Or it's like your grito, your best grito, and you like can't do it. Doug, wow. That was that was phenomenal. I was happy to be part of that.

Doug 33:50

It goes low. I can't scream. I know. I can't scream. You can scream better than I can scream.

Jesse 33:54

I can't scream either.

Doug 33:55

So who that actually lightheaded now? No, I feel good. Oh good. You know?

Jesse 34:00

Sometimes you're just gonna be a screamer.

Doug 34:03

I just think sometimes we gotta let ourselves be angry. You know?

Jesse 34:06

Yeah. And it doesn't mean that the anger is gonna swallow you whole forever.

Doug 34:09

No.

Jesse 34:10

Just let it out. It's okay. It does suck. If you need any more validation, just listen to this episode again. Sucks. It does suck. It is hard. It is so hard and so angry.

Doug 34:25

You know what also sucks? When you're trying to get pregnant, it feels like everyone else gets pregnant. That sucks.

Jesse 34:32

That sucks.

Doug 34:33

That sucks majorly.

Jesse 34:34

Yes, totally. Or someone that got married after you gets pregnant. Your sister, your friend, your cousin, your whatever, they got pregnant, they get married, and then they get pregnant. Or they I remember this recently in my process group, someone said I was together and married and trying to have a baby with my partner, and these this couple wasn't even dating.

unknown 34:58

Yeah.

Doug 34:59

Now I said that.

Jesse 35:00

Dating, yes, dating, married, and pregnant in the whole time that I've been trying to have a baby.

Doug 35:06

Oh, that sucks.

Jesse 35:09

That sucks. That so sucks.

Doug 35:13

So and you know who's like bound to have like their second child as soon as you start having fertility problems is like your younger sister.

Jesse 35:22

Yes. Yes.

Doug 35:23

You're like, seriously.

Jesse 35:25

F that. F for fake. Oh, that's some baby back. Bullshit.

Doug 35:33

Or like, I don't know how it's possible. Like, you know, you don't think about fertility stuff, and then as soon as you're like, oh my gosh, we're struggling to get pregnant. Every single person at work just wow, I can't believe, you know, they all randomly get pregnant. You're like, I have to freaking deal with this.

Jesse 35:47

Right.

Doug 35:48

So much.

Jesse 35:49

Right.

Doug 35:50

It's like when you're like, it's like when you like think about a car and you like see the car everywhere. Like all of a sudden everyone is getting pregnant. Right. Every freaking Facebook, Instagram announcement is like, oh great. There's another baby shower announcement.

Jesse 36:04

As you're eating your like 18th plate of salmon for dinner because you heard it makes you fertile. Like you know what I mean? Like, just like uh, so bad.

Doug 36:13

Sucks.

Jesse 36:14

Sucks. Let's play a game to end this episode.

Doug 36:19

Deal.

Jesse 36:19

I've been watching a lot of good hang lately, so um, let's play a game. I will say something that sucks about infertility, and then I'll pass it to you, and then you pass it back to me. Ooh, I like that. And we'll try to get as many as we can in 60 seconds, but I won't time it.

Doug 36:36

Okay.

Jesse 36:37

It will just like the feeling of when when you need it to stop. Okay. Okay. Here we go.

Doug 36:43

Infertility sucks.

Jesse 36:46

You know what sucks about infertility? All the money it costs.

Doug 36:51

You know what sucks about infertility? When someone says good things come to those who wait. Hate that.

Jesse 36:58

What also sucks about infertility is when your best friend gets pregnant. Oh. That sucks.

Doug 37:04

You know what sucks about infertility is um testing early and it's negative, but you're like not sure if that means something, but you just ruined your day. That sucks.

Jesse 37:19

What also sucks is miscarriages.

Doug 37:21

Um, you know what also sucks is uh fighting with your partner about fertility.

Jesse 37:27

What also sucks is dealing with doctors that suck.

Doug 37:30

Uh you know what also sucks is um how complicated the medications are.

Jesse 37:36

You know what also sucks? Going into a party and feeling one down because all of your friends have kids. That's my favorite.

Doug 37:43

What also sucks is when your parents keep asking you when you're gonna have kids.

Jesse 37:53

What also sucks is unexplained infertility, not being able to give birth.

Doug 37:57

Going to church.

Jesse 37:58

Period. When you're struggling to get pregnant, not telling your friends and family that you're pregnant.

Doug 38:04

Having to tell your boss that you need off in the morning to go to get your blood drawn.

Jesse 38:09

Crying all the time.

Doug 38:10

Watching other people parent.

unknown 38:13

Ooh.

Jesse 38:16

Secondary infertility, having your kid ask, when are you going to have another baby?

Doug 38:22

Having to plan the holidays around everyone who has kids.

Jesse 38:26

Oh, gosh, I need to stop doing that. That was like the unknown. The unknown of it all.

Doug 38:34

Knowing when to stop pursuing treatment.

Jesse 38:37

Fighting with yourself.

Doug 38:39

Uh, the ethical questions of like, what do I believe in? What do I do? What do I have to stop doing that?

Jesse 38:46

It's not going to be able to go back and forth if I keep doing that. Losing out on your dreams.

Doug 38:53

Watching like the most annoying person at work have a baby shower.

Jesse 38:58

Karen. It's always a Karen. I love it. The way that infertility can sneak up on you in life when you're not expecting it, like a TV show. Someone gives birth, someone's pregnant, something like that, a celebrity. I remember um Rihanna being pregnant on the Super Bowl. It's like, was anyone expecting her to walk out pregnant? And boom.

unknown 39:21

Right.

Jesse 39:22

I literally felt bad for all the infertils in that moment. I was like, oh shit, she's pregnant. Crap. And how you don't weren't expecting it at all.

Doug 39:32

Uh the target baby section that you have to walk by it all the time. Toxic positivity. Hearing that all of your friends went and did something very kid-centric and you didn't get invited. They didn't even tell you.

SPEAKER_04 39:49

That's sad.

Doug 39:50

That sucks.

SPEAKER_04 39:51

That's sad. That sucks.

Doug 39:53

Being depressed. Having to dream up a new future for yourself. That doesn't that includes all of this.

Jesse 40:01

Feeling like you're letting your partner down.

Doug 40:06

Having to literally invest in your mental health because you're like, that sucks. You'd be like, I don't what? Why do I have to do this? It's good to invest in your mental health, but having to do it sucks.

Jesse 40:16

Wanting to give your parents a grandchild and they're getting older.

Doug 40:21

Getting close. Like doing a transfer, and it's like this is the moment, and then nothing. Like getting close and then nothing. That sucks.

Jesse 40:33

Getting a diagnosis or not getting a diagnosis. Both suck.

Doug 40:38

Endometriosis.

Jesse 40:40

PMOS. Low ovarian reserve. Low sperm mobility. All the diagnosis.

Doug 40:48

Giving a sample sucks.

Jesse 40:51

Finally getting pregnant after years and years and years and years of infertility and there being complications.

Doug 40:58

Um, I've I this gotta suck. Internal ultrasounds?

Jesse 41:02

Yes, yes, they do. They do.

Doug 41:04

Wanda's gotta suck.

Jesse 41:05

Yeah, they're not fun. I wouldn't say they're fun. Having to move on from infertility without a baby, going to another avenue or not no avenue at all. Just moving on without a baby.

Doug 41:18

Having to learn about like donor eggs, donor embryos, donor sperm, and having to do that. It's just losing friends, losing sleep.

unknown 41:33

Yes.

Jesse 41:34

Feeling like you're letting everyone around you down.

Doug 41:38

Feeling like you can't ever have a good time.

Jesse 41:41

Mmm.

Doug 41:42

Like, how am I supposed to like go have a good day?

Jesse 41:45

Right.

Doug 41:46

When I'm just this sucks.

Jesse 41:47

Feeling like you're missing out on time.

Doug 41:50

Having to deal with needles.

unknown 41:52

Yeah.

Jesse 41:52

Beating yourself up for decisions you've made.

Doug 41:55

Having to talk about infertility.

Jesse 41:57

Yes. With your father-in-law when it has to do with sex.

Doug 42:00

It's just having to talk about it at all. Yeah. When you're like, I don't want to talk about this.

Jesse 42:04

I just thought of a big one. Having sex when you don't really want to. Especially if sex is a complicated thing for you even before you met infertility. That sucks. That sucks. Taking your temperature, checking if you're ovulating. The two-week wait. I mean, I could go on. I mean, I don't know how many more. I could do I could do a hundred more. Keep going.

Doug 42:28

Uh the two-week wait.

Jesse 42:29

The two-week wait. The two-week wait sucks. Walking by people that are pregnant.

Doug 42:34

Going to a little kid birthday party.

Jesse 42:37

Having a complicated relationship with your nieces and nephews.

Doug 42:40

Having to go to work, especially if you work in anything that has to do with children.

Jesse 42:46

Yes.

Doug 42:47

School teacher.

Jesse 42:48

Work sucks, period, but the asterisk, especially working with children.

Doug 42:52

Nurse, school teachers sucks. Can't imagine.

Jesse 42:55

Multiple miscarriages and then becoming pregnant and not being excited, only being full of worry.

Doug 43:05

Having to do the holidays without children. When you want children.

unknown 43:10

Yes.

Jesse 43:12

Yes. Feeling like you have changed in not a good way.

Doug 43:16

Starting a cycle and having to stop it. Yes. A failed cycle.

unknown 43:20

Yes.

Jesse 43:21

Feeling dull and down all the time. And then waves of anxiety.

Doug 43:26

Doubting your faith system that you've had forever. All of a sudden you're like, wow, this doesn't work anymore. What's going on? Sucks.

Jesse 43:34

Not being able to drink. Can I say that?

Doug 43:38

Can't pour yourself.

Jesse 43:40

Yeah, can't pour yourself a glass of wine at the end of a long day. Can't think of anything more like valid of a glass of wine at the end of the day than struggling with infertility.

Doug 43:48

Having like limits on what you can do, you know? Yes. Like not being able to live your full life.

Jesse 43:52

Yes. Yes. Having to constantly plan your life around infertility and cycles. Will I be pregnant? Should we book that trip? Will I be pregnant for this wedding? All that. That sucks.

Doug 44:07

That really sucks.

Jesse 44:09

Anniversaries of losses. That sucks.

Doug 44:13

Not knowing when you should tell your friends and what you should tell your friends. How much to tell them.

Jesse 44:19

Being an educator.

Doug 44:20

Are we an open book? Are we not? That sucks. Yeah.

Jesse 44:24

Having to educate all the fertility terms to people that sucks.

Doug 44:30

Getting pregnant and then still being very anxious. Yes. You know? Like something happens and you're like, this is good, but I'm so incredibly anxious. That sucks.

Jesse 44:40

Having a complicated relationship with pregnancy tests.

Doug 44:43

This is a different one, but the anxiety of maybe having gone through infertility, having gotten pregnant, and then the thought of what happens when we try to get pregnant again? You know, we wanted to have more than one kid. Am I gonna go through this all again? That's an anxiety that sucks.

Jesse 44:59

Having hope shattered. Have I finally done it? Have I made it that you are speechless?

Doug 45:07

Um a lot of fertility doctors' waiting rooms. You're just sitting there quietly. And no one's talking, and you're like, I hate being here.

Jesse 45:19

Oh that sucks. Anniversaries of losses. Mother's Day, Father's Day, dates, dates on the calendar. That sucks. Your birthday, New Year's Day, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, Flag Day. It all sucks.

Doug 45:37

The smell of alcohol pads. I hate those scenes.

Jesse 45:40

That is a triggering thing for me. I hate that. This is a lot longer than a minute. I just realized.

Doug 45:46

This is how long Jesse thinks a minute is, by the way.

Jesse 45:48

I know, I know.

Doug 45:49

Jesse, you literally said 60 seconds. We've got like, I think it's been 15 minutes. This is insane.

Jesse 45:54

But I think this is what the people want to hear.

Doug 45:56

This is how much infertility sucks.

Jesse 45:58

Yes, yes. That's really what it is. Is how I think that's what I'm I'm struck at is like, wow, how many we could do with just off the top of our head of what we could think of. Wow, that's pretty actually pretty fascinating.

Doug 46:14

Yeah.

Jesse 46:15

Like I can't think of something else that I've ever experienced that I could think of that many things that are hard about it.

Doug 46:21

Right. Because that's how much infertility sucks.

Jesse 46:25

I am going to try to leave this just a validating episode of just talking about how much it sucks, but it really hurts me inside not to say something of like there's nope. I'm not even gonna say it. We are just going to validate how much this sucks. If you could relate to every single thing that we said in this episode, you're experiencing infertility. That's that's what it is. You are not alone. You and you are not, maybe that's the hope. Is that you, I hope this episode you feel like you are not alone. Not alone in these feelings. You're not a bad person for feeling these feelings. Um, it's okay to feel these feelings. It does suck. It does. It absolutely does. And we hope that you just feel validated in that feeling. Because it is probably the number one need I hear in my process groups from people. Like I just need to hear someone else talk about how much this sucks. So hope that was enough talking about it. I could go on. I could this episode could be three and a half hours for me.

Doug 47:36

And don't forget, infertility sucks. End of story. Uniquely Knitted runs six-week process groups for people who are struggling with infertility from all around the country and the world. You can check them out at uniquely knitted.org. Also, if you want to get involved in what we're doing, you can email us, reach out to us, find us on Instagram. We would love to talk and be there for you in this sucky period of infertility.

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